This transcript was auto-generated using Adobe Premiere Pro.
00;00;05;01 - 00;00;28;15
Meg Pekarske
Hello and welcome to Hospice Insights: The Law and Beyond where we connect you to what matters in the ever changing world of hospice and palliative care. Jaysen, Kerri I'm so excited that you're here to join me. You said, yes, this has been in the works, I feel like for three years, perhaps. Or maybe Kerri and I were just braining this out for the last three years and then we brought you into it
00;00;28;15 - 00;00;29;27
Meg Pekarske
Jaysen.
00;00;30;00 - 00;00;31;08
Jaysen Roa
I'm happy to be here.
00;00;31;11 - 00;00;32;25
Kerri Ervin
COVID happened in between.
00;00;32;26 - 00;01;11;01
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So. Well, this is our first conversation shared under this title, Successful Hospice Leadership. And what I'm doing in this little series is talking to CEOs and then, you know, their partners within the organization and relationships, because I really feel like relationships are what drive a business and the quality of that relationship. So if you have quality of relationships and trusted relationships, that's going to really be a foundation for thriving as an organization.
00;01;11;01 - 00;01;46;04
Meg Pekarske
And knowing you both, as long as I have, you're sort of, ah, the tippy top of my list of thriving relation ships. And so is the relationship between a CEO and a compliance officer. As you know, as a compliance officer, you sometimes have to deliver bad news and things that make your CEO uncomfortable and sleepless nights. And so I thought it would be great to kick this series off with the two of you, because this is probably the most heartburn inducing relationship that there is within a hospice.
00;01;46;04 - 00;02;10;29
Meg Pekarske
So and you guys have done a great job of navigating that. So just to set the stage here for for folks who are listening, who don't know you, maybe, Jaysen, I start with you and this is the second time you've been on the podcast, but for those who don't study every episode, Jaysen, tell me a little bit about who you are, how you came to a vow.
00;02;10;29 - 00;02;13;02
Meg Pekarske
What's your background in hospice? All that.
00;02;13;05 - 00;02;20;00
Jaysen Roa
Thanks, Meg, and thank you for having me back a second time. I guess that means I wasn't terrible the first time, so I should feel flattered.
00;02;20;00 - 00;02;22;15
Meg Pekarske
You're awesome. Awesome.
00;02;22;17 - 00;02;51;00
Jaysen Roa
Yeah. So, I'm Jaysen Roa. I'm the President and CEO of the Avow company is located in Southwest Florida. And essentially, I think, like many of your guests, we we started as a not for profit hospice organization over 40 years ago. And over time kind of morphed and expanded some of our different offerings, including our palliative care, or which is a separate company as well as everything we have for grief and bereavement for adults as well as children.
00;02;51;00 - 00;03;26;07
Jaysen Roa
We also have a thriving foundation which really helps us in terms of all of our unfunded or underfunded programs and services that we provide to the community. So I've been lucky enough to be here at about now for eight years, and during that time Kerri and I have worked together for most of that time in one capacity or another, because Kerri has has worn a lot of hats during her 20 years here at Avow, which certainly is extremely valuable because her her knowledge across the spectrum of hospice, palliative care or just in compliance in general is really helpful.
00;03;26;07 - 00;03;55;20
Jaysen Roa
But I actually started my career, oh, probably 20 years ago in Central Florida at my first not for profit hospice organization have continued on and this is my fourth not for profit during my career. So I'm extremely happy with kind of taking this turn and getting into hospice and palliative medicine and really very happy to be here at about because I have great colleagues like Kerri and the rest of our executive team, all of our staff and volunteers and of course our board.
00;03;55;22 - 00;04;03;18
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So so Kerri, you've been around the block a bit and have. So because you're a clinician by training, right?
00;04;03;20 - 00;04;13;20
Kerri Ervin
Yep. I'm a registered nurse. I started my career in nursing and then moved into management and compliance and quality from there.
00;04;13;27 - 00;04;21;01
Meg Pekarske
So. And were you always in the hospice space? I mean, Jaysen just said you've been at Avow for 20 years. So were you a hospice nurse?
00;04;21;08 - 00;04;47;22
Kerri Ervin
Yeah. The majority of my career has been spent in hospice. I started in the hospital and it just, you know, it wasn't the right fit for me. I actually thought maybe I don't want to be a nurse. And I found hospice. And it was it just fit from the beginning. I was a clinician in hospice. I've held many roles and I was the second hospice organization I worked for and I've been here 20 years.
00;04;47;22 - 00;04;59;06
Kerri Ervin
And during that time, I've done just beyond anything a nurse can do. And I have to say I am extremely blessed to have had that opportunity because I've found every one of those roles very rewarding.
00;04;59;10 - 00;05;24;18
Meg Pekarske
And I think to have street cred as a compliance officer, you need to understand, like I've done your job or I know what's involved in that, because compliance can also be a lonely job, like no one ever wants to talk to you because again, you're sort of our are the Grim Reaper, so to speak. And, and like usually when compliance is involved, something's not going right.
00;05;24;18 - 00;05;27;18
Meg Pekarske
Right. And like, people get nervous about that.
00;05;27;18 - 00;06;00;14
Kerri Ervin
So I think many times that's the case. But you know, at Avow compliance is involve from the ground up. It's part of our culture and Jaysen has really has really promoted that. And it really is something that is in the fabric of the organization. And so when no one ever thinks it's odd, when compliance has a seat at the table or does come to them, because we always have a seat at the table which is really helpful, the relationships are already there.
00;06;00;21 - 00;06;32;20
Kerri Ervin
So when there is a problem, we can easily work together and it has been helpful to have done the job of many of the people that I work with. It does give me the ability to understand where they're coming from, especially with all the different programs that we use and just some of the challenges that we face. So when you come across to someone and you're talking to them to be empathetic and to be able to get your message across in that empathetic way.
00;06;32;23 - 00;06;54;04
Kerri Ervin
But but to do it compliantly and they understand that at the end of the day and this is part of the culture, too, we're all here for the patients and families, and everything that we do is to their benefit and to provide that high quality care so that we can continue to provide it. And we only, as Jaysen says, often, we only get one chance to do it right.
00;06;54;04 - 00;06;59;16
Kerri Ervin
And we we really strive to make the time someone has with us here the best it can be.
00;06;59;18 - 00;07;32;02
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. No, exactly. And I think the wearing multiple hats when we were preparing for this podcast a bit ago, you used this quote about relentless reliability and I feel like as both an observer, observer and a participant in, you know, good partnerships, I mean, good partners, ships are based on that relentless reliability because we're going to talk about how you build trust.
00;07;32;02 - 00;08;00;16
Meg Pekarske
And I think trust is built not on Oh, sure, I'll do that. It's like, sure, I'll do that. And I get it done and I get this done and you know, your trust is earned, I guess. And so when you use that phrase Kerri, it really was a jumping off point for me and I share that with my team too about that because I think that that was sort of how I became to be too is you're always the reliable person.
00;08;00;16 - 00;08;22;29
Meg Pekarske
And so the fact that you've worn so many hats, Kerri within the organization, I think is probably a testament to that relentless reliability. And Jaysen, I'm I'm guessing you're thinking, yeah, Kerri's been so effective in so many different ways. Why did you decide to say, Kerri, that's have you doubled down in compliance?
00;08;23;02 - 00;08;57;06
Jaysen Roa
Well, you know, it's interesting. Kerri actually said that to me, and it was probably oh, shortly after I started Kerri's schedule, an appointment to go out to lunch with me because she again was very skilled already in compliance. But we were kind of retooling what our C-suite look like in terms of what the different structure would be, what our down lines would look like, and ultimately trying to prepare for the next five, ten, 15 years, because this was back in 2015, knowing that there were kind of these monumental changes coming.
00;08;57;06 - 00;09;22;00
Jaysen Roa
And so, you know, when we sat down for lunch, she kind of shared her thoughts and very quickly also was thinking about the future and understanding what was going to happen with all of these government audits, quasi government audits and all of these different functions that really, you know, 20 or 25 years ago, none of us ever heard about in terms of all of these different things.
00;09;22;00 - 00;09;57;29
Jaysen Roa
There was no even vision, I think, of the whole ATP process way back then, and it was kind of to a certain degree, everybody left to their own devices when the majority of hospices were really not for profit and we weren't on the radar of the government and so on and so forth. And you know, with the times changing, I think we knew that we not only needed to be prepared for all of that and continue to be a compliant organization, but really, I think to Kerri's point, have compliance, be part of the fabric of what of that was not only compliance, but also quality.
00;09;57;29 - 00;10;32;17
Jaysen Roa
And you don't have good quality without compliance, which we've heard multiple times. And so that was really kind of the beginning of trying to build this and make sure that everything that we're doing and everything that we're thinking about doing all starts with the basis of quality of care and compliance, really as the foundation for it. And whether it was redoing some policies and procedures or looking at our code of ethics or looking at how we respond to audits or all the different things, that's really somewhat kind of, I guess, esoteric to us.
00;10;32;20 - 00;11;05;06
Jaysen Roa
It's what Kerri does, an exceptional job of. And when we're speaking to our peers here, whether it's the C-suite, the leadership, or even our team or with the board, she does it in a way where it's relatable. They understand not only why it's important, but the impact of why we're we're ready for this, which is exactly what I try and do, probably at a macro level for everything, including all the upcoming changes that are happening with Medicare and all the things that we're expecting to happen just with the health care continuum in general.
00;11;05;08 - 00;11;44;21
Meg Pekarske
Obviously, someone taking that initiative today doesn't surprise me that Kerri's like, Hey, let's go out to lunch. Jaysen, I have some ideas I want to share with you because, you know, and one of the reasons that I really value the relationship that the two of you have from a distance, see, is, you know, Kerri, you obviously have a lot of get up and go and passionate about what you do and this whole idea of learning more and building your skills because compliance ten years ago in hospice and what compliance looks like now, totally different.
00;11;44;21 - 00;11;55;26
Meg Pekarske
Right. And so I know you did a lot of investment from an education standpoint and maybe you can talk about what that looks like and and how Jaysen supported that.
00;11;55;28 - 00;12;23;11
Kerri Ervin
There aren't I mean, every great avow has has always supported education and that is something that Jaysen has very much promoted. But from the time I was in our and at some point maybe about I guess 15 years ago, I decided that I wanted to go into leadership and went back and got a master's in administration health care administration.
00;12;23;11 - 00;13;06;09
Kerri Ervin
And I started working in leadership and then moving up into up into other areas and started actually in quality. And when Jaysen came, he really made it a point of promote in education, not just at the degree level because the degrees and the certifications are important, but also in the networking development piece, which I think it's been a key in my development and a key in success in the role is developing relationships with other people so that you can learn from them.
00;13;06;09 - 00;13;32;29
Kerri Ervin
We don't all have to reinvest to reinvent the wheel. But, you know, Jaysen did support every time I'd go to him and say, hey, I want to get this certification, I want to get that certification. Then at some point he said, you know, he made a rule at the organization that we couldn't put more than two initials after our name to the professions because mine got a little ridiculous and and so so we did that.
00;13;32;29 - 00;13;54;14
Kerri Ervin
But but then, you know, wanting to grow and develop in the compliance world because I like all of the areas that I work in, but compliance is probably my favorite. So wanting to grow in that area and I came to have a point a number of years ago and said, I want to go back and get a master's of jurisprudence in health law.
00;13;54;16 - 00;14;15;08
Kerri Ervin
And he very much supported that. He would read my papers when I when I had them, he would just you know, he was a great sounding board for ideas. But but he just I knew he believed in me and he in it is credit. He he kept trying to get me to go and get a JD, but I wasn't at a point in my life that I was able to do that.
00;14;15;08 - 00;14;31;10
Kerri Ervin
So I would love to, but but I don't know that will ever happen. But have invested in a number of degrees and certifications and, and the support of the organization has been key to me being able to do that.
00;14;31;13 - 00;14;54;16
Jaysen Roa
So Meg, you know, Kerri and Kerri always make sure when I when I tell everybody she went to law school, she she has, you know, the little caveat to that, which is to say, well, I didn't get my JD, you know, she got her jurisprudence, but it's that way. We've done that many times. But, you know, I think to Kerri's credit, as well, she's also instilled the values of education and her in her children.
00;14;54;16 - 00;15;12;03
Jaysen Roa
And so she has a son who is now a practicing attorney. And so it was kind of interesting because when he was kind of figuring out where he wanted to go for law school, she was going through a similar process and I think had just started school. If I recall. So it's kind of interesting how it all works.
00;15;12;03 - 00;15;35;25
Jaysen Roa
And, you know, to Kerri's credit, she is never somebody who doesn't want to get educated and I think that's the key with any of us. It's very easy to be stagnant in whatever role we do or just try and continue on with the status quo. And, you know, I've been lucky that I've had opportunities during my career to go back and get different education and certifications or even degrees.
00;15;35;28 - 00;16;03;20
Jaysen Roa
But our entire executive team really over the past eight years, they have all also done that on their own. And so whether it's Kerri getting this degree or many of our other team members who've all went back for no reason other than just for self enrichment, but also to help the organization and really help the different types of, I think, strategic imperatives that we're focusing towards.
00;16;03;22 - 00;16;15;27
Jaysen Roa
And it's just something I think we all have to do. And and Meg, you and I talked about this where we're we're not constantly learning, then that's that's a problem, especially in an industry like ours, where it's dynamic and changing every single day.
00;16;15;27 - 00;16;41;20
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So all of this conversation about learning, we're doing a strengths assessment on our, our team here by past this team here at and so I just have my Gallup strength assessment and guess what I got my top five guess what the number one thing is, are you a learner Harry is holding out for?
00;16;41;25 - 00;16;44;25
Kerri Ervin
Absolutely. I have a learner. How did you know?
00;16;44;28 - 00;17;12;16
Meg Pekarske
Oh, you're I to make and that's number one strength this is learner and so and then the second is ideation for me so I'm all about ideas and then I think I have until action and then strategic and then responsibility. But I think that that culture of learning is really important because it it's behind innovation, it's behind problem solving.
00;17;12;16 - 00;17;41;09
Meg Pekarske
And I think that I guess something that I've reflected on and that something I see in strong leadership teams is that you are not, I guess, threatened by other people's growth, right? That you want to build up other people and you want really smart people around you. You want people that are going to push you like Jaysen a, you know, as a CEO, you want a strong compliance person.
00;17;41;09 - 00;18;04;17
Meg Pekarske
And so you then you can have conversations and you know, the give and take that I think really has to happen, whether it's the compliance role or, you know, other things within the organization. And I guess how I really feel like I want people who are strong and, you know, and they feel empowered and invested because that's going to make everyone better.
00;18;04;17 - 00;18;24;18
Meg Pekarske
And so so I guess along about way along about way getting to that culture of learning and I think is really a strength when you start to break down. Why is of our grade and what's in the secret sauce. I think that that's really a big part of that is you attract people who want to learn and grow.
00;18;24;20 - 00;18;47;07
Kerri Ervin
I agree, Megan. I think from a compliance officer perspective, anyone in leadership but compliance is changing so quickly with the regulations and everything happening that if you aren't a learner and you aren't staying up on what's happening in your field and understanding it, you're going to have a hard time keeping up for yourself and for your organization.
00;18;47;09 - 00;19;09;03
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, totally. Totally. And I think there needs to be support for for that because, you know, as a person who really loves ideas and thinking about things and you know, I always have a lot of ideas. I'm thinking about lots of different things and that can drive some people mad. But hopefully a lot of people appreciate that because.
00;19;09;06 - 00;19;13;05
Jaysen Roa
The executive team always tells me I have a lot of ideas as well. So.
00;19;13;08 - 00;19;33;07
Meg Pekarske
So, yeah, I and I guess a weakness of the person with lots of ideas is you can I know people with all of your ideas and then they don't know how to prioritize, but putting that aside, I'm just talking about my own strengths. But that's hilarious that you just did the Gallup strength assessment.
00;19;33;09 - 00;19;49;08
Kerri Ervin
Oh, I learned a long time ago. You did? I actually you know, my team went through it as well. We we all did it. And then we came together to see what each of our strengths were, because it is important to build on people's strengths.
00;19;49;08 - 00;20;26;26
Meg Pekarske
So yeah, no, it's it's fascinating. We're doing a mash up with my whole team and it's really interesting how right on an era like ask, answering 170 questions is like that is my essence. And how did you figure that out? I thought it was more complicated than that. But but I guess on some nuts and bolts stuff with compliance, because a lot of these questions come up sort of operationally of, you know, CEOs don't want to be in the weeds of everything or at least a good CEO should end because you got to empower the people sort of underneath you.
00;20;26;26 - 00;20;53;09
Meg Pekarske
But like, how did you find your sweet spot and what you share? How much you share, and then, you know, how do you report to the board and how did you come like to what kind of detail to share? And when you involve different people and maybe Jaysen, start with you. Like how has that evolved over time and what details do you like to know versus Don't tell me unless something's X?
00;20;53;12 - 00;21;17;18
Jaysen Roa
Yeah, well, so again, when, when I when I got here, I started on the same day as our brand new CFO. So she and I, although we didn't come as a package deal, the organization got us both on the same day. And from there we had a lot of different executives that were basically kind of towards the end of their career and retiring out at that same point in time.
00;21;17;18 - 00;21;38;08
Jaysen Roa
So, you know, although I didn't plan for it, I was given the opportunity to kind of help build out our executive team here. And so over the course of doing that and over the course of building out the executive team, as each person came on, we kind of had our own, I think, to your point way that we were doing things.
00;21;38;08 - 00;22;02;19
Jaysen Roa
But in general, Kerri and I meet every two weeks and kind of review some high level things. She shares with me all the different reports and things like that that she compiles as part of our overarching compliance program and quality programs here at Avow. And it's helpful because, you know, I don't always have time to go through the hundreds and hundreds of pages of data that she and her team collect.
00;22;02;22 - 00;22;27;25
Jaysen Roa
And, you know, our board books are usually 5 to 600 pages for our board meetings. And so, yes, I read all of it. Karen, I are probably the two people in the organization that read everything. And so one example would be our policies, procedures and protocols for the agency. She and I are the two people who have read every single one, and that's purposeful to where, you know, she's the second to last approver.
00;22;27;25 - 00;22;49;14
Jaysen Roa
I'm the last approver, but I've think we've kind of found our groove only because to your earlier point, I have implicit trust in her, not only based on her aptitude and her ability, but really her work product. And so I know that I can trust whatever she's putting together without having to come in behind her and kind of cross-check everything and make sure that it's correct.
00;22;49;16 - 00;23;16;00
Jaysen Roa
And that's been extremely helpful because again, going back to when I got here to allow for a significant amount of time, probably within the first year or so, that I was here, it was myself and the board. And so I was presenting everything, bringing everything to them. And over time we kind of evolved. We're now each member of our executive team will come and present to the board for their respective downline, and specifically with Kerri.
00;23;16;00 - 00;23;34;17
Jaysen Roa
And so it's interesting because the board actually gets excited to hear from our entire executive team instead of just for me, because they value kind of what Kerri's expertize is and what she brings as well as each of our other exact motives. And it also gives the board an opportunity to ask good questions, which they do for care.
00;23;34;17 - 00;23;53;19
Jaysen Roa
And we have extremely high level board members and I think, Meg, you and I talked about this on the last podcast that, you know, our board here is a little bit different and I mean, in an opposite way than some other boards that I've either worked for or served on because of their experience. And kind of we have a deep bench, so to speak.
00;23;53;19 - 00;24;32;01
Jaysen Roa
And so the person who is the chair of the committee, which oversees quality and compliance, is a retired hospital CEO, and he was at the same hospital for 40 years. He spent his whole career there and was the CEO for 20. And so he understands everything that we're going through because he's actually lived it. And I think that's something that Kerri enjoys because he asks her the hard questions, he asks me the hard questions, and he does know what a Pepper report is, and he does understand gloppy and all of these different things, whereas that's something that for many others may be lost on them.
00;24;32;03 - 00;24;59;28
Jaysen Roa
And so I think to answer your question more directly, it took time to get to the point that we're at, but now we really do have a good workflow, I think, between us and really the way Kerri works with the rest of the executive team and the board, where compliance and quality aren't overbearing. But I think to her point, which kind of kicked this all off, it's really just part of the fabric of what we do here at a valley, because good quality comes out of compliance.
00;25;00;02 - 00;25;29;15
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, well, and I think importantly, what I am taking from what you're saying as you value this, you value compliance and like and as a compliance officer, I'd imagine, Kerri, that feels totally different. Like if you were working with someone who doesn't really value like, well, I guess I have to have this because it's like, check in a box, I need to do this as opposed to this is valued, this is critical.
00;25;29;15 - 00;25;38;08
Meg Pekarske
This is, you know, it makes for a totally different kind of relationship and how you can really thrive in your job.
00;25;38;10 - 00;26;00;18
Kerri Ervin
Absolutely. It's it's so important. And it's part of why I do very much enjoy the work is is the team that I work with Jaysen but but also the other members of the team and having that relationship where, you know they don't sigh when I come to the table. But to Jaysen, the point is it did take time to develop.
00;26;00;21 - 00;26;20;29
Kerri Ervin
You know, they have to learn to trust that when they share something with me, you know, I'm not going to go running around with my hair on fire. If there is an issue, we need to deal with it. We're going to do it together as a team and we're all in this together. And and that has taken time to develop.
00;26;21;01 - 00;26;42;06
Kerri Ervin
As far as you know, Jaysen and my working together and determining how much to share, that took a little time too, because, you know, I didn't want him to feel inundated with all the data. So there was a period of time and even now. But but less so I'll send him stuff and or I'll ask in our one on one meetings, do you want to see this?
00;26;42;06 - 00;27;13;06
Kerri Ervin
Do you need to see this so that we can determine in how much information he wants and needs to do his job? Jaysen is very beat on the street. He's not in the weeds, but he knows what's happening everywhere in the organization. And so he does want to know. And one of the things that I really value about him is that I can bounce things off him and he will give me ideas and he trusts that I'm going to come out with a good answer, but he won't give me the answer.
00;27;13;08 - 00;27;38;15
Kerri Ervin
And that is well, sometimes, but most of the time he makes me work for it, right? So that over time has really helped me to develop as a leader and as a compliance officer, because I think I think things through. And, you know, one of the things we say here at Avow is the answers are always, yes, well, what does that mean?
00;27;38;17 - 00;27;56;26
Kerri Ervin
It doesn't mean that everyone that walks in the door, I'm going to say, yeah, you can do whatever you want. But we start with yes. And then say, but how do we get there in a compliant way so that when when they come, they feel like it's a positive, interactive relationship. And Jaysen and I have that as well.
00;27;57;03 - 00;28;27;20
Kerri Ervin
We balance things off each other, and I trust that he's going to tell me if he wants more or less information is he's guided me and coached me and given me more opportunities than I could ever ask for. And in working with the board, you know, some of the ways that he does that are, you know, encouraging me to make sure the board members understand things at their level and helping me to really recognize when I might be too high level or too in the weeds.
00;28;27;22 - 00;28;49;00
Kerri Ervin
But also I speak fluent acronym, which many of us do in healthcare, but our board members don't always speak fluent acronyms. So so just remembering that you have to spell it out. You have to make sure that you meet the person receiving the message, knows what you're talking about.
00;28;49;00 - 00;29;17;15
Meg Pekarske
So yeah. Paul, it's clear that that you, you too have a relationship of trust and that it's evolved over time, right? I mean, trust I do think is or not that you are on trust in initially, but right over time when people deliver over and over again, as you're saying, Jaysen, your need to sort of read everything becomes last, right?
00;29;17;15 - 00;29;46;21
Meg Pekarske
I mean because over time and and so I just yeah, I feel supported when you're around really talented people that you can trust because it just you sleep better at night and you know, you do feel like we're all really in this together as opposed to, well, that's your problem, that's compliance, or you figure it out. And so I guess sort of last question as we wrap up here.
00;29;46;23 - 00;29;50;10
Meg Pekarske
What what do you value most, Jaysen and Kerri?
00;29;50;13 - 00;30;27;06
Jaysen Roa
You know that is a that is a tough one, Meg, because, you know, not not to sound somewhat cliche, but there's so many different things I think really what I would say I admire about Kerri is just the tenacity in which she does her work and her expertize in it. And, you know, candidly and I probably don't tell her this now, but sometimes when I see some of her work product as dry as that sounds, I'm kind of excited because she does such a good job with it and not just the details in it, which are all exceptional, but also just the presentation of it.
00;30;27;06 - 00;30;59;22
Jaysen Roa
And when she puts together things for the board and so I just again, would really admire her tenacity. And and she has accomplished a lot of the things that she's accomplished that I've witnessed personally over the past eight years in terms of working full time, building entire or I should say revamping an entire compliance and quality program, going to school to get another master's degree, getting multiple certifications while also being an exceptional mom to her three kids.
00;30;59;22 - 00;31;17;28
Jaysen Roa
And so they're are all things that I think anyone, including myself, could only aspire to. And then she did she sometimes as well as many of our other peers and colleagues, inspires me just because she's able to do all of this. And sometimes I think I could never do all that. I don't know how she does it. She does it.
00;31;18;00 - 00;31;35;25
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, I'm doing one of those things right. Yeah, but I guess. I guess. Kerri, you're going to have the last word, then it's going to be my drop after you. Here. But I guess what what have you, what do you value most about Jaysen? And has that evolved over time?
00;31;36;02 - 00;32;11;08
Kerri Ervin
Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for your kind words, Jaysen. I value our relationship. There are so many things I value about Jaysen and really respect about him. And there's the work and then there's the personal. And Jaysen is really good at the boundaries between the two, which is something that he has taught our team and our leaders, which is important from a compliance perspective as well, because you have to be careful with relationships and things when especially when you're at a higher level.
00;32;11;11 - 00;32;41;17
Kerri Ervin
But but the work life balance is something that I have struggled with because I do want the next certification and the next degree. And so I work, you know, and so Jaysen would say, Kerri, stop for a minute and and see the whole world. Whereas the balance here and and when he does that, he knows that, you know, I might be spending less time at work, but he also knows that it's better for me and for the long term future, my career and for the organization.
00;32;41;17 - 00;33;06;04
Kerri Ervin
And I very much value that about him and about our relationship and from a business perspective, Jaysen is a strategic thinker and from the beginning he got me to think about things and on a larger scale, but also not at the micro level. And and, you know, I might say, well, this is what we need to do, but then he would help me see.
00;33;06;04 - 00;33;34;18
Kerri Ervin
Yeah, but what is that effect? What are all of the what's the cascade here? So he really thinks about the future. He sets the organization up for success in the future, but he does the same thing with his employees. And I've seen it and it takes time and working with someone to see this, how he has developed each member of the team individually to really build on their skills.
00;33;34;18 - 00;33;44;06
Kerri Ervin
And he has helped me become a better leader and really a better person with the balance in my life because of the strengths that he has.
00;33;44;08 - 00;33;49;18
Meg Pekarske
Mm Yeah. Wow. That's powerful and that's hard to do.
00;33;49;20 - 00;33;50;06
Kerri Ervin
Yeah, it
00;33;50;06 - 00;33;54;23
Jaysen Roa
is. That's what and it's way too much credit let me just say. Should get too much credit.
00;33;54;26 - 00;34;23;29
Meg Pekarske
Well I doubt that. But I mean, because I think it's hard and then takes time and it takes patience. But when you you sort of have the long view to things and investing in people and giving them what they need and that, you know, how and what they need changes over time. And so I think you need to be, you know, tuned in to because not everyone needs the same stuff from you.
00;34;23;29 - 00;35;09;21
Meg Pekarske
And so while that's fabulous, you guys are fabulous in doing great things and you know, it's fun to see how even since I've known you, how you've changed and evolved and you're both very smart people. So I appreciate you sharing, you know, how you've come to be a bit more. You know, you didn't reveal all the secret sauce here, so there's no like, oh, this is exactly how Jaysen and Kerri so, you know, another podcast may be in our future because I can get you to, to, to, you know, because compliance keeps changing over time.
00;35;09;21 - 00;35;36;29
Meg Pekarske
And I, you know, what audits you do and and that mix of proactive versus reactive staff. It's it's sort of relentless because right now people feel so overburdened by all of the reactive audits that I'm concerned about, that we start we forget to focus on our game to like the government's going to audit you no matter how perfect you are.
00;35;37;00 - 00;36;08;07
Meg Pekarske
Right? And so it's just like how not to let that distract you from. So Jaysen doesn't get distracted by that and can still grow the business and grow people and all that stuff. And Kerri, you still have your proactive compliance plan that you need to do, even though we need to react to these things. And so I think having strong, talented leaders and really good infrastructure allows you to react to things but not make that your business plan that's all reactionary to everything as opposed to, well, what do I want to accomplish?
00;36;08;07 - 00;36;31;18
Meg Pekarske
Because you can have days where you don't accomplish what you want, but if that becomes months and years because you get in, you know that that is the death of an organization. Right? So so I think you guys have done a great job of striking that balance. And so I'm inspired by by what you all do. So anyway, this was fun, as always.
00;36;31;18 - 00;36;35;02
Meg Pekarske
So, so thank you for making the time for me.
00;36;35;06 - 00;36;38;22
Jaysen Roa
Thank you, Meg. Appreciate it.
00;36;38;22 - 00;36;56;07
Meg Pekarske
Well, that's it for today's episode of Hospice Insights: The Law and Beyond. Thank you for joining the conversation. To subscribe to our podcast, visit our website at huschblackwell.com or sign up wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may the wind be at your back.